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On Marriage
From a thread of discussion at www.exmormon.org BBS
On marriage
(from a person who is close to Mormonism but no longer a practicing member)
Posted by johanna on April 08, 1999 at 22:16:19:
In Reply to: Questions we don't like about marriage... <9819.html> posted by Harold on April 08, 1999 at 19:22:37:
Marriage is kids, and dishes, and groceries, and car accidents, and parties, watching T.V. and parent teacher conferences. There are a million things that go into good marriages besides sex.
From the woman's perspective, I can't imagine spending my time cleaning the house, grocery shopping, cleaning his clothes, fixing his dinner, and then have him come home and say, "Honey, I met a totally gorgeous girl at the office and she makes me hot, could you put that dinner on a plate for me, she's waiting in the car" I wouldn't put his dinner on a plate, I think you know where it would go.
Why? I don't do those things around the house because I have to. I do them because I love my husband and want to make him happy. Being close to him and receiving his complements is my reward for stretch marks and dishpan hands.
From the man's perspective: The man comes home from work, he's had a crappy day at the office. He walks in and the house is a mess, no dinner, not even an apple in the fridge. He calls for his wife. "I'm upstairs with Craig (the neighbor)" What! he rushes upstairs to find them drying off after a shower and asks what's going on. "Well Craig and I were talking outside and he complemented me on my new hairstyle and well, our eyes met and I just knew what he was thinking. We've been making love for a couple of hours, sorry about dinner. Do you think you could get take-out for us?" I think you know what you'd do and it would be going to get chicken.
Why? Because you go to work and put up with crap from your boss and stupid remarks from your co-workers and traffic not because you have to, but because you want your wife's approval and love. You want her comfort when you've just had a bad day. You want a warm meal and a nice house.
If you or your spouse had a "back-up" do you think you would EVER have a meaningful discussion or try and work out a problem. I think you'd be stomping out the door everytime your spouse made you angry or upset. (Some of our best sex has been after a fight because we talked it out and became a little closer).
This whole discussion makes me sad because it reminds me so much of the polygamy issue and makes me angry and sick to think of it. Joseph basically "legalized" sleeping around and even exhalted it as necessary to achieve Godhood. I can't even imagine how degraded those poor women must have felt. My great-great-grandmother was one of those women. She had 13 of her own, plus ended up raising a few of her "sister-wife's" kids (because she flipped out) and the first wife's boys (because he left his Methodist wife in PA). But who do we name the reunion after? The man who spent all his time in bishopric meetings, or building yet another building for the church, or running a church owned business. Our inspiring pioneer FOREFATHER not foremother.
Sorry to ramble. I'm sure others will have totally different opinions, but it would break my heart to have my husband even give a little piece of his heart to another. In fact, one thing that I've found since discovering that we don't have an "eternal" marriage anymore is that I do want to enjoy every bit of our mortal life together. So I'll concede that point, I thought we had eternity to enjoy each other. I guess I'll have to stuff it all into 50 years or so.
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Posted by johanna on April 09, 1999 at 04:00:04:
In Reply to: on open marraiges... <9876.html> posted by farmboy on April 08, 1999 at 23:07:28:
that I thought my husband was the only guy who could be a best friend like that, your wife is dang lucky.
I had a crush on a young bishop a couple of years ago and I tried not to let it get to me but I was acting like a stupid high school girl, driving by his house, watching him during sacrament, the arm touching thing, I was losing it...acting so stupid. Guess what broke the "spell"--telling my best friend, my husband. I thought he would be mad (he was a little edgy at first) but we talked and talked and later talked some more. Slowly the feelings faded. I realized, by talking with hubbie, that I liked this bishop because his wife was a shrew, I guess I thought I could rescue him.
Anyway farmboy, I was glad to hear of another couple who are not sexless robots "who never had a thought of another." How can you have great sex if you don't think about it often?
If I drank, I'd toast your marriage and mine...:)
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(The above response (johanna on April 9, 1999 at 4:00:04 ) was to the following post ......
: My approach... communicate with my spouse like crazy... overcommunicate, even. I try to "fess up" to my wife as soon as I lose it in some way, and we talk through it. She's a very accepting and forgiving person (thank God!). She know's down deep I'm more committed to her than ANY other relationship in this world. I try to have patience with my mistakes, forgive myself, form a new battle plan, pick myself up and go on with living.
: Here's a poem I wrote for my wife not too long ago. It kind of fits the topic:
: I'm not the same man that she married
: But am I better or worse in her eyes?
: The twelve years since ceremony ended have changed me
: matured, conditioned and tamed
: We no longer talk about God and such things
: They remind her of ways we are no longer one
: And my efforts to please and perform as a husband
: do not meet with some priesthoodly expectations
: I try to expose my life's whole to her
: while trust seeps like blood from old wounds
: Yet desires overcome me from a life lived by script
: Still she tries hard to understand and accept
: During love-making there is no question
: as our passion blinds all forms of sight
: Surely experience good and bad has love deepened
: through trials of vows solemnly made
: Perhaps time may be on my side, perhaps not!
: as I strive with all might to stay by hers
******
Another message left by Johanna in explanation and clarification to her earlier messages:
Posted by johanna on April 11, 1999 at 23:00:16:
Dear honey and others that were ticked at me but didn't post. I said that the reason someone hasn't posted in favor of "open marriages" is they were busy going through messy divorces.
I shouldn't have been so glib, I apologize for my sarcasm. I was afraid someone would say I was flaming everyone who goes through divorce, but that was not my intent at all. I was flaming those trying to justify giving into their base urges.
Although I didn't want to, I'll share what I went through with my parents. After 32 years of marriage my parents just got a divorce. My mom found out that at about 15 years married, my dad had a 4 year long affair with my mom's "good" friend. This was all going on during the day, in my parents bed, at the same time they were having family outings together with this couple on weekends and evenings.
I guess to hide his affair, my dad starting drinking heavily so there was no chance of intimacy between he and my mother. I don't know if this was a conscious act or just caused by guilt, but eventually my dad became a full-blown alcoholic.
Meanwhile, my mother did the good Mormon thing and poured out her soul to Heavenly Father to help my father stop drinking and forgave him time and time again from his drunken rages. She felt like she had to, that she should forgive and someday she would pray him back to the church. She read all the books on co-dependency and alcoholism. She became active in the church again and got her endowments at the temple. She had always stayed home with dad on Sundays and sent us to church. It saved her in many ways. Now she could take of the whole ward now instead of my dad.
My teen years were hellish. My parents constantly fought, I fought with my mother, my dad was always tipsy if not downright drunk when I came home from school. I couldn't have friends over anymore. In many ways, the Church was my refuge. The people there cared and appreciated things that I did to serve. They had "normal" families and my friends biggest problems were fighting with their sisters (probably not true but that is the way I saw it).
Anyway, when my mom finally found out about the affair after 14 years of being married to an alcholic, she totally lost it. All these years she had put up with his smelly body in her bed, the put downs, never being able to say a controversial word, all the co-dependency crap you can imagine.
Do you know what my dad's response was? " I've made it up to you all these years by being a good grandpa and doing what you wanted me to do." So the one redeeming quality he had, that of being a good grandpa was simply payment, like he was going to payback for the affair eventually. She was numb.
I feel sorry for my mom. She still has dreams about dad and tries to take care of him. As for me, I have to deal with the fallout because after my dad "gave my mom a year to change her mind" he pursued the woman he had an affair with and is now married to her.
I won't let her in the house and even though that seems like it should have been a simple decision, the Molly Mormon in me said "I should be forgiving and open my heart" YUCK. Well now that I don't have alot of mormon guilt hanging over me I don't feel so bad about my decision. I will still visit with dad at his house with her around, but I've made it clear that she is not to be my children's grandmother in any way.
So, after that long story you can see that I am not simply small minded. I am a victim of an affair. I may have been the kid, I may have been the married 32 year old mother of 5, but even now I am still a victim. You all can screw around all you want, but you better not have a spouse or kids and the person you have sex with better not either. If you do, your nothing better than an animal in heat.
Page Modified April 11, 1999